In all the names mentioned in connection with the Kentucky job (here and here), there was one notable exception who I really expected to see there: Jesus. Because that's who it might take to meet the lofty expectations of the Kentucky fanbase.You probably know Tubby Smith's Kentucky resume by heart at this point: averaged 26 wins a year, won 5 SEC regular season titles, 5 SEC tournament titles, went to the Sweet Sixteen six times, went to the Elite Eight 3 times, went to the NCAA tournament 10 times in 10 years, went undefeated in the SEC in 2003 and won 100 of his first 130 games at Kentucky. And oh yeah, he won a national title.
And yesterday, he was fired (you can say he left, he resigned, he did whatever, but clearly, Kentucky wanted him gone) as head coach of the Kentucky Wildcats.
I'm not saying that Kentucky was right or wrong to do this. I have an opinion on that, you have an opinion on that, everyone has their opinion. But here are facts: going to the Sweet 16 in more than half of your years at a school is good. Going undefeated in the SEC in any year is remarkable. Five SEC titles in 10 years is good. Appearing in the Elite Eight three times in 10 years is good. These are facts.
There are really only three programs that can expect that level of success or above over any extended period of time: Duke, North Carolina, and Kansas. There are others on the cusp of that, but just three clearly inside. Basically, what Kentucky is asking of their next coach is to make Kentucky one of the top four programs in the country.
I'm just wondering, what would have been good enough for Tubby Smith to keep his job? I'm really asking. I don't know the answer. Two national championships? Two Final Fours (and really, Tubby was one incredible Dwyane Wade performance away from having two Final Fours, and another great game against Michigan State from having three Final Fours)? 8 SEC Championships? 10 straight Sweet Sixteens? Could he have had the same exact record he compiled, but played a more uptempo style and had a more ebullient personality, and kept his job?
Kentucky really should put these things down on paper. I'm sure the incoming coach would love to know exactly what he has to be accomplish that will make the difference between him being a coaching legend or a pariah.
Comments (Page 1 of 2)
The uk fans saw that tubby smith was not the right person to coach at uk.Tubby Smith has shown that he cannot recruit the top players to come to uk.The fact that tubby smith was not able to give uk a win over any top 25 team this season and not being able to show that he can win at uk.It takes alot more than a 20 wins season to be the coach at uk.At uk you have to show that you can win sec championships and go deep into the ncaa's.At uk you need to show that you can make the ncaa final 16 to final 8 on a regular basics and show that you can get a team to the [ ncaa final-four and ncaa championship game ( not necessary every year and season ) ].A uk coach must be able show that he can do it and tubby was not able to do it.The only tubby smith team that may it to the ncaa final four and ncaa championship game was during his first season at uk in 1998 and all the players from that team was recruited from the former uk basketball coach rick pitino.
Who ever wrote this article is seriously lacking in any knowledge of college basketball. I'd love to hear the reasoning for Duke, Kansas, and North Carolina being a better program than UK when UK has more national titles, wins, and a higher attendance that all 3 of those schools. A very poorly written piece lacking any objectivity. Then the guy says he is holding back his opinion. Your opinion is what? You are jealous of the UK tradition so you want to put some fake act up like UK doesn't have more wins than any school in history? Seriously, this guy doesn't know the first thing about college sports...AND Tubby wasn't fired by the way, but who needs facts in journalism?
I'm tiring rather quickly of all the comments about the 98 Title team being "Rick Pitino's Team". True, he recruited them, but he didn't coach them. Tubby did. Stop trying to tarnish the man's great accomplishments. I personally think that Tubby left of his own accord, tiring of the constant BS he was receiving from some of the UK fans because he wasn't perfect every time out. Best of luck to him at Minnesota.
Statistically, Kentucky has gotten worse each year since Tubby has been there. Tubby is a great man and a good coach but it is obvious his style of play, his recruiting decisoins, and his obvious lack of motivation/enthusiasm over the past few years have been a mismatch for Kentucky. Part of what makes Kentucky basketball so great is the Big Blue Nation so it is no wonder that we are very involved in all aspects including the coaching of our team. Lastly, I am wondering why someone would make the baseless comment that the winningest program in college basketball shouldn't expect a great deal of success each season. Duke, UNC, or Louisville fan?
Stats don’t lie…
> >
> >
> >First UK coach to go 8 straight years without a final four.
> >First UK coach to have to play on Thursday in an SEC tournament since the
> >expansion to the current 12 team format.
> >The First UK coach to lose 10 or more games three years in a row, and 4 of
> >the last 7 years.
> >The first UK coach to lose to Vandy in Rupp
> >The first UK coach to be swept by Vandy in a season in 32 years
> >The first UK coach to lose 4 straight to an SEC opponent in 30 years.
> >Only coach to lose to Ole Miss at Rupp
> >Only coach to lose to Vandy twice at Rupp
> >Only coach to lose 4 home games to SEC Opponents
> >More Home losses than any previous UK coach
> >Most Double Digit loss seasons of any UK coach
> >1st UK coach to not finish at least 2nd in the East since the SEC expansion
> >Most transfers and problem players of any UK coach
> >Never recruited a player to play in a final four in 16 years as a head
> >coach
> >Fewest NBA draft picks of any coach with at least 5 years (only 2 1st
> >rounders in 10 years)
> >47% of his recruits don't make their senior year
> >Current 5 game losing streak to florida could soon be a new record
> >Only coach with the overall #1 seed in the NCAA to lose in the 2nd round
> >Lowest Average Points Scored Per Game since the 3 point shot was introduced
> >Worst loss to Indiana ever (26 points)
> >Only UK coach to lose consecutive games to Kansas
> >Worst Loss on Senior Day since 1919
> >Only UK coach with a losing record vs Michigan State (2-4)
> >Only coach to ever lose to a number 1 ranked team at rupp.
> >Only coach to ever begin the season ranked in the top 10 and finish the
> >season unranked.
> >Worst average attendance at Rupp Arena for one season, under Tubby (00-01
> >avg.21,014), since it opened in 1976.
> >Rupp Arena hasn't averaged 23,000+ since the 98-99 season.
> >Only UK coach to lose to a SEC opponent 6 straight times (Florida)
> >
> >
> >Let's compare the past 2 seasons of UK basketball to the 2 years that UK
> >was on PROBATION in 1990 and 1991.
> >
> >These are regular season stats:
> >
> >Won/Loss record:
> >Probation - 36-20 (64.29%)
> >Past 2 yrs - 38-20 (65.52%)
> >
> >SEC record:
> >Probation - 24-12 (66.67%)
> >Past 2 yrs - 17-13 (56.67%)
> >
> >Wins against ranked opponents:
> >Probation - 5-6 (45.45%)
> >Past 2 yrs - 3-12 (20.00%)
> >
> >In 2 of those 3 major categories, the past 2 seasons rate worse than when
> >the seasons when UK was on probation and a third is a near dead heat. Also,
> >even the 1990 team was capable of winning 2 games vs top 25 teams (2-5
> >(28.57%)
> >
> >
> >Tubby vs. Pitino
> >
> >Percentage of games ranked in top 5:
> >Tubby 16%
> >Pitino 59% (53% if you include probation year)
> >
> >Number of games in top 5:
> >Tubby in 326 games ranked 54 games in top 5
> >Pitino in 269 games ranked 142 games in top 5
> >
> >Number of Home losses:
> >Tubby 19
> >Pitino 5 (7 if you include probation year)
> >
> >10+ loss seasons:
> >Tubby 4 (in 7 years - 1 loss away from 5 in 8)
> >Pitino 0 (1 if you include the probation year)
> >
> >Average number of losses per year:
> >Tubby 7.9
> >Pitino 4.8(throwing out the 1st year)
> >
> >Games played as #1 ranking: Pitino 10 Tubby 4
> >Games played as #2 ranking: Pitino 44 Tubby 14
> >Games played as #3 ranking: Pitino 33 Tubby 10
> >Games played as #4 ranking: Pitino 18 Tubby 15
> >Games played as #5 ranking: Pitino 37 Tubby 11
> >Total games with top 5 ranking: Pitino 142 Tubby 54
> >
> >Team Turmoils:
> >Tubby 2
> >Pitino 0
> >
> >Transfers out of the Program:
> >Tubby 14
> >Pitino 7
> >
> >NBA 1st round draft picks:
> >Tubby 2
> >Pitino 10
> >
> >Rick Pitino’s 1st year 14-14 probation team averaged more than 10 ppg than
> >ANY Tubby Smith team except 2. It averaged 8.9 ppg more than those 2 teams:
> >
> >Rick Pitino - Points per Game
> >1989-90 88.82
> >1990-91 85.89
> >1991-92 85.72
> >1992-93 87.50
> >1993-94 86.88
> >1994-95 87.39
> >1995-96 91.44
> >1996-97 83.13
> >
> >Tubby Smith takes over:
> >1997-98 80.08
> >1998-99 75.41
> >1999-00 69.09
> >2000-01 79.79
> >2001-02 76.88
> >2002-03 77.28
> >2003-04 73.91
> >2004-05 73.62
> >2005-06 70.77
> >2006-07 72.32
> >
> >Final Fours
> >Pitino 5 (3 at Kentucky)
> >Tubby 1
> >
> >Championship games
> >Pitino 2
> >Tubby 1
> >
> >NCAA tournament (at Kentucky)
> >Pitino 22-5 (.783)
> >Tubby is 23-8 (.663)
> >
> >Misc. Notes
> >
> >* Pitino beat 11 teams seeded 5th or higher in 6 NCAA Tournaments.
> >
> >* Tubby has beaten 4 teams seeded 5th or higher in 9 NCAA Tournaments.
> >
> >* Tubby has beaten only 1 team seeded 5th or higher since his first season
> >at Kentucky.
Well I really don't think anything else needs said because Susan pretty much covered it all and done it very well with pure facts. I wish some of the other people hating on UK would read that.
UK fans are about to learn the hard lessons that Alabama football fans learned last fall. Few coaches are enamored enough with the cachet of Kentucky Basketball to put up with the guff from their fans. Wake up! It is a different world out there. It has been 32 years since a team went undefeated in NCAA div. I and 15 years since one has won back to back championships. There is plenty of talent out there and the smart players are opting to go places where they will play immediately. It is going to be hard for any program to sustain the kind of success UK fans want.
Tradition has not won a game. Everyone has a tradition. I am a sports fan and a college grad. When I think of college basketball, Kentucky does not jump into my head. If I was a high school star, I would be looking at Florida, UCLA, or USC. Kentucky ,like many other schools, has become a local radar program with limited national impact.
Ok I guess Seth believes that because we have had bad years that Kentucky is now a "local radar program". GIVE ME A BREAK. BACK TO BACK TO BACK national title games in the mid to late 90's with 2 national championships. Two elite 8's since. So who do you consider the big programs then? USC, UCLA ? USC is not a national program number 1. Number 2, UCLA has only 1 national title outside of Wooden. The only coach to not win a national title since our legendary RUPP is Sutton! That is a sustainable "NATIONAL" program my friend!
Brad apparently thinks it's the year 1975. The author's point is that UNC, Duke and Kansas are better programs RIGHT NOW than Kentucky. No one outside Lexington cares about Kentucky's national titles from 50 years ago, least of all recruits.
By the way, Kentucky has won exactly one national championship in the last ten years. So has UNC. So has Duke. Kansas has 0. Only UConn has 2. The days of multiple titles in a short span are over. It's a new world, and I suggest you accept that.
"I'd love to hear the reasoning for Duke, Kansas, and North Carolina being a better program than UK..."
Easy. Those programs don't force their coaches out when they're "only" winning 20+ games.
Really poster #9, also named Seth..
North Carolina didn't fire Brad Daugherty?
Notre Dame didn't fire Tyrone Willingham?
The Yankees haven't fired or released countless players and managers?
Nice little double-standard you have there bud, but you have to do better than that. Kentucky fans are guilty of nothing but wanting to win. There is nobody to blame but Tubby Smith he didn't get the high caliber recruits Kentucky SHOULD get.
To John Reber:
Uh okay, so in the last 12 years Kentucky has 2 titles. What difference does it make? Who thinks its 1975, Kentucky has 7 titles in 100 years, it's funny that you think that I think teams still win bunches of titles. It's you behind the curb my friend. What the date has anything to do with anything is beyond me. Tubby didn't cut it, thats all there is to it. Then you want to say, UK is no longer elite because they have been in decline..THATS EXACTLY WHY we needed a new coach. You are making my argument for me. Again, the guy that wrote this lacks college basketball knowledge, I found this blog randomly through a search and will not come back. Terrible writing, no facts, and little substance.
If you want up to date news on the situation, go to my blog www.southeastcollegesports.com/bradking .
peace.
ps.
in the meantime read this article:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10080776
To John Reber:
Where do I begin?? Okay, first of all, your argument is that teams never win titles back to back or in short spans. Uh, Kentucky went to three national championships back to back to back 96-98. Isn't Florida the favorite to win the NCAA tournament this year? Who won it last year? Oh yea, Florida. What winning titles in bunches has to do with anything is beyond me and quite irrelevant. You say Kentucky is no longer the elite program they were 10 years ago. THATS EXACTLY WHY Kentucky needed a new coach. Tubby was not getting the job done, thats all there is to it. We don't want SEC titles or a trip to the tournament. Just as the Yankees don't just want a trip to the playoffs. There is no excuse you shouldnt make the tournament as coach of Kentucky.
Again, who ever wrote this article is seriously lacking in college basketball knowledge, perspective, and context. I found this blog randomly through a search and will not come back.
Peace,
BK
Who would want this job after reading all of these comments?
You Kentucky fans are brutal.
My guess is that most of the people pushing him out are of a past generation where multiple titles, final 4 runs, and perfect seasons were an achievable goal. In the college basketball world of today these things are not possible.
I understand your stats say this and that, but the college basketball landscape has changed drastically in the last 10 years.
FYI, George Mason made the Final 4 last year, Gonzaga is a national program, and the MVC is a top 6 conference.
Bless the next coach that walks the sidelines in Lexington.
Heres a thought for all you so called UK supporters, why dont you petition the NCAA to reduce the field of 65 teams down to 64,(with UK getting an automatic berth every year into the championship game of course). Then they can eliminate the South Region all together and only have the East,West and Midwestern Regions. Then instead of having a Final Four, they could change it to the Final 3 and play a best of 3 series between the renmainng 3 teams to see who gets the honor of playing the almighty Universtiy of Kentucky Wildcats. They should even change the name of the tournament from the NCAA Tournamnet to the University of Kentucky Invitational Tournament.
What da ya think??? sounds good huh. Then it would'nt matter who your next coach is or who you recruit. The only problem I can forsee with this idea is that if UK only wins 75% of the national titles, you guys will be looking for another coach, but if that happens, maybe the NCAA will consider giving you the outright championship every year and everyone else can play for second. I have a feeling that most of your would prefer that latter of the two though. Think about it though, if you draw up the petition, i'll sign it. It would sure make filling out my office bracket every year a whole lot easier.
P.S. I hear former Minnesota coach Dan Monson is interested in the position at UK. I'm not sure if you guys deserve him though.
Who would want this job after reading all of these comments?
You Kentucky fans are brutal.
My guess is that most of the people pushing him out are of a past generation where multiple titles, final 4 runs, and perfect seasons were an achievable goal. In the college basketball world of today these things are not possible.
I understand your stats say this and that, but the college basketball landscape has changed drastically in the last 10 years.
FYI, George Mason made the Final 4 last year, Gonzaga is a national program, and the MVC is a top 6 conference.
Bless the next coach that walks the sidelines in Lexington.
As i said before read post #5 (this includes you UNLVRULES)
ROB, You're right, i'm sorry. What was I thinking, why should Kentucky even have to lower themselves to the rest of our standards and even have to play for the National Title. Everybody should already know that UK is, has been and always will be the most dominant basketball force to ever walk the face of the earth. How does this headline sound ( 08- Forever & Ever National Champions Mens Basketball- University of Kentucky Wildcats ) Congratulations UK.
Stats shmats!!!!! numbers dont mean anything unless you're trying to count to ten and only have 9 fingers.
What your stats fail to mention is, how much money has Tubby made for the University since his arrival, and how many lives has he positively impacted since he has been at UK. This was a man who was not only trying to teach 18 year old kids the fundamentals of teamwork, but also how to be better men as well. There are somethings in life that are nore important than how many banners you have hanging from the rafters at Rupp arena. So my question to you ROB is, WHAT DO YOU STAND FOR???
Been a UK fan since '78(was 5 then). Have never seen a more absurd crop of UK fans(supposedly) than I've seen here lately. A TRUE fan goes through the ups & downs WITH the team...they don't throw THEIR team under the bus when they are in a struggle. They complained when we couldn't get McD's All-Americans to come to UK...well heck, we have 3-4 now, and only 1 (maybe) of them is even worth anything. They complain, complain, and complain.
IF Tubby would have made a shocking run through the tournament to the Final 4, the still would have complained. Folks need to calm down and let the coach coach and the players play w/o all of the ridicule. Who the heck would WANT to coahc/play for UK and be under ALL the scrutiny due to a 2 game losing streak?
Stop living out your coaching/playing dreams through these coaches & kids(and yours for that matter), and ENJOY being a TRUE UK fan!